Let's Play Help Karen Make Decisions - Shall We? (Updated)

Share your questions about and experiences with adoption or surrogacy pregnancy alternatives.

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Let's Play Help Karen Make Decisions - Shall We? (Updated)

Postby justme » Sep 16, 2006 3:24 pm

Okay, although my post tile may sound glib, these are things I have seriously been thinking about.

Background on me:
2 hg pregnancies, one beautiful dd and one horribly managed hg pregnancy that resulted in the loss of our much missed Casey Lee earlier this year.

Well, we didn't know at the time about hg (even though I had it in both of my pregnancies, thank you very much Dr. F....) and we're so scared about the second pregnancy (we considered terminating) that we went right out and had a vasectomy. Because those are the best circumstances to make decisions always, not.

Well, here we are now. I have gotten all of my medical records. I had an early pregnancy loss, probably a normal non hg related one. And now I know about hg. So my options are: no more children, vasectomy reversal or adoption.

I want a reversal, to have another pregnancy, to get to have my baby delivered and in my arms.

Pros: I get to have that natural child I wanted to have and lost with Casey and hopefully minimize the traumatic experience of this last pregnancy. It is such a sucky memory to be left with for your last pg experience.

Cons: Well, $9,000 for the reversal which is not guaranteed to work, hg, I don't know if I could survive emotionally another loss, severe perinatal depression during this last pg (the scary could maybe hurt myself please help me kind), and, oh yeah did I mention hg.

My husband is scared to try pg again and is pushing for adoption, which I am not in anyway opposed to.

Pros: No hg, no perinatal depression, no pregnancy loss, still get a baby to love and make a part of our family

Cons: Probably more than $9,000, it is also not guaranteed, still left with this crappy last pg memory.

No matter what, no other child will ever replace my Casey, I know. But I have learned through this experience that I have a lot a lot of love in me, and I want to give it.

As some of you may know, I actually secretly pray each night that the snip didn't work and we get pg anyway, cause who can argue with God's will? But my dh has an appointment later this month with the dr. so I am trying to really think, and pray, things through and see which path I am really supposed to be taking.

Any wisdom, any insight - anything? I am lost and looking for hope, a way to move forward. A way to heal and love and make a family for me and my dh, and for my precious Riley (whom is very loving and I think would be a great big sister) and angel baby Casey.

All prayers are desperately wanted, all insight is appreciated.

Karen
Last edited by justme on Sep 28, 2006 8:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby DebbieS » Sep 17, 2006 1:05 am

Hi Karen,

Would it help to decide on one plan, let it simmer for a bit and see what your subconscious has to say about it. Maybe time would reinforce that its a good idea, or maybe you would have second thoughts, and it might show that another plan might be better.

I don't think there is a perfect plan that you will feel perfectly happy with. There will still be $$, worries and maybe regrets with either plan. The goal is to chose the best one for you, that you and your family feel happiest about.

I can understand you feeling that if you go the adoption route that you might feel a failure in the pregnancy/HG department. But, is it possible that you might feel redeemed by your work/time spent on this HG site and publicising HG?

Good luck with your choice, and give it time.
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Postby _Laurie » Sep 20, 2006 8:39 pm

Karen,
Although I don't have any advice to offer, I have big hugs for you, and will pray much for you. I believe God will grant the desires of your heart. I don't know how, but I pray He'll give you clear direction.
:hugs: :hugs:
Much love,
Laurie
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Postby tlm5999 » Sep 20, 2006 10:24 pm

On the money issues if the vasectomy is to much and the traditional adoptions are too much, you might look into Catholic Charities. Many of the children are not newborns but are still very young and need good loving homes and families. The fees are much more resonable and the process is usually a bit faster too.
Valin 05-15-03 HG
Liam 11-19-04 HG
Anna-Marie 9-3-06 Lost an angel
Jonathan Declan 12/28/06 Lost a twin
Declan James 8-8-07 HG
Joseph 6-4-09 non-HG
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Postby JennyK » Sep 20, 2006 10:48 pm

I don't have any advice for your dilemma, but when you are weighing the cost of adoption calculate in the tax breaks you'll get. A friend's sister adopted in Oregon last year and her actual cost when all was said and done was $7000. She had to have a lot more cash than that on hand, but after taxes that's how much poorer she was.
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Postby Ivydragon » Sep 21, 2006 12:58 am

And don't forget that adopting as foster parents is FREE! Well, financially, anyways.

So, after two HG pgs, my dh had a vasectomy. I was 23. He was 30. We knew what HG was, we knew the 2nd pg was worse, and we knew we didn't want to face worse. So, we decided to adopt, became foster parents, waited a year, got a placement, able to adopt him almost a full year later. Hard, emotionally - not easy, but worthwhile. So, we considered another pg. Reversing the vasectomy adds another dimension you didn't consider, and we did. A reversed vasectomy means continued possible fertility. I was 27 when considering a reversal - like I wanted to be facing the scary possibility of more than one more additional HG pg? I think not, I thought not, and I still think, heck no! There is a special bond in my marriage due to the fact that sex is about intimacy, marriage, bonding, not conception. We had a close friend, single, who volunteered to be a sperm donor, and in two tries, I was pg - ok, it wasn't really so cut and dry - it took two years to plan and decide about, and lots of changed minds, but I did conceive, and in the end . . . I miscarried - ectopic pg. Horrific. So emotionally scarring that I refuse to ever conceive again - period. I absolutely cannot open myself up to the possibility of another miscarriage, which you also did not factor into your equation - what if you did the reversal, what if you did conceive, and what if you miscarried, again. I can't go there - it's so different to have a baby waived in your face, and then kept, or given to someone else - someone's dreams are coming true - someone has kept that child. But to put a child in my own womb, someone I can sense the presence of, a child who is mine - and then to loose it - that is just more than I can take. So, we're approved to adopt again - looking for a birthmom who wants an open adoption, or for a match through our adoption agency. Even then, it took a while for me to be able to move forward - to even apply. I wanted to a year after my miscarrige, but $ was too tight, and so last year we started, and this summer were approved.

So, here are my thoughts, based obviously on experience. I had hard deliveries with both my bio children. I was hoping that maybe I'd experience a normal delivery the 3rd time. A chance to see if I could maybe handle the pain without an epidural - maybe if I had a dula. So, I know what it's like, wishful thinking for the future, replace some of that bad memory from the past. I'll never experience that perfect birth. I've given birth, twice. I know what it was like for me. You've given birth, had a baby placed in your arms. You know what it is like. The future will never change the past, and only time will soften your loss. My miscarriage was 3 years & 3 months ago, and pictures of that time period still snap me directly back. There is nothing you can do, no child you can conceive, no child you can adopt, no experience you can ever have that will erase, reduce or fix your loss. With time, and I mean a good year or more, life will pull you forward if you let it. The living, current life, the child you have, hope for the future all can pull you forward, and you stop reliving the past so much, and start living the present, and then you start to live towards the future.

What would reversing your dh's vas get you? Maybe a baby - maybe. A steep cost, and a rating of fertility you could be disappointed by, or delighted by, only then to have to decide if he then has another vas, or what other means you are going to use to prevent pregnancy, and the reality of HG. You considered terminating your last pg. We're not talking about a woman deciding to ttc after two HG pgs, a natural miscarriage, and a list of drugs, who might be able to not consider a termination with a good Dr. and a promising protocol. We're talking about a couple who was afraid enough of this HG to discuss terminating a pg and who then were afraid enough of HG to have a vas done. HG is WORTHY of such fear. HG kills women, still, and is well known to be worse with each subsequent pregnancy. Don't forget to factor in the cost not only of reversing your dh's vas, but perhaps other fertility helps - and the costs of HG - child care, or loss of income, or medication, or delivery.

So, what is this DRs. visit for your dh about? Why the need to decide so quickly? You are a lucky woman to have a husband who would support adoption. Some men will not accept that option. Remember, it takes two to build a family, and this is not your decision to be made alone. Your husband has the right to say he does not want to support another HG pregnancy. HG takes a heavy toll, and is hard enough to decide upon, but you have to feel like it is the only right way in order to reverse a vas to get to the HG pg, and then endure one, too.

Adoption isn't a perfect path, either - but it didn't risk my health, I didn't vomit, even once, and I have come to know wonderful people I would have never met any other way. I've always known I could adopt - and I'm not sure I ever would have if I could have popped out 5 kids in 10 years like my mother did. I have nearly come to a place where I am thankful for my HG pgs.

I am truly sorry for your loss. Healing from your loss and adding to your family, though, are different things - and even should you decide to pursue another pregnancy, it shouldn't ever be for the healing of your loss, but because it's the right way for the next child meant to be yours to come home. I've come to believe that each child has their own time, and own special way of coming home - it's what keeps me sane, ;). I look forward to the day when I know my family is complete - in the meantime, I am practicing patience.

Feel free to ask me more specifics - I really glossed over most of my history.

Oh, and I just have to ask, how old are you and dh?

Andy
Mom to Aaron 14 (HG), Anna 11 (HG), Adam 8 (adopted), Andrew 8 (adopted), fostering a newborn . . .
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Postby justme » Sep 22, 2006 11:30 am

Andy,

Our age, dh will be 35 this November and I will be 34.

The appoitment on Tuesday is a consulatation appointment - just to get information, etc. He has actually never gone in and done the recheck to see if he is "clean" yet or not. This decision, we are not making hastily - we are truly discussing it, getting info. etc. The decision to have the v done, that was done quite hastily and out of fear. One of the very real discoveries we have made was that on top of receiving horrible medical care, I had a very bad reaction to Reglan which we did not know at the time. I have spent months now getting all of my medical records together (from several different hospitals because we went to a few different ones to try and get help and save our baby) and really trying to understand what happened to me, both physically and emotionally. On a side note: I feel that the drs. do an incredible disservice to women, their babies and their families when they don't really discuss hg with them even though they diagnose it and put it in their records. I have now realized that I had an early pregnancy loss (possibly involving twins or a second sac that is described as "cyst-like" and one baby, our Casey, that had an abnormal fetal pole and heartbeat from the beginning) that was not related to the hg or caused by the hg. So there were a variety of factors that came into play that, when handled poorly by my doctor, left us very shaken and confused. I know that there are no guarantees that I would get pg or have a healthy baby, but I do very much want a second child. And I can't explain it, but I would like to be pg again. I just feel a longing, this sense that I am not done, that my family is not complete. Not because we are missing Casey, which we are but I know that any other children brought into our home would not be nor could they ever replace our Casey, but because there is just - I don't know - I guess many of you know the feeling I am talking about but can't explain.

I am sorry for your loss, for all of our losses. I understand that they are real and take time to heal from and will always be a part of us. And I know that nothing is guaranteed - but I am really trying to think it all through and make the best possible decision for me and my family, to discern and follow the path that God is trying to lead me to.

Karen
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Postby Ivydragon » Sep 23, 2006 11:53 am

Sigh - I so know that someone is missing feeling, and the desire to complete my family. On occassion I'm asked to watch a mass of children, it was 5 last night in addition to my own three, and people think I'm nuts, but it's when my house if overflowing with children from time to time that I feel like I'm not missing anyone for a while - it's a nice repreive. I no way think I'm going to end up with 8, but it's nice to feel like the house is full every once in a while.

It sounds like you really have things in the right perspective, and I had to check, so I hope you aren't offended by my questions. It really sounds like you'd be pursuing another pg for the right reasons if that was the right decision for your family.

Ah, adverse Reglan reaction, and little information from DRs. Such a diservice to you.

Adoption will fill your arms with a child - people who are determined to adopt do adopt. That desire to be pregnant, again, though can't be quenched by adoption. Sometimes I wish I could feel a baby kick in my womb again, but I know it is a passing fancy, vs. the strong desire. Only you can determine if your desire to be pregnant again is a passing fancy, or a yearning that God has placed in your heart. I believe it could be either one. Time helps to determine this, but also your own faith, and your personal beliefs on mans ability to commune with God. My husband and I both believe in prayer, and that God answers prayer. We both are strong in our faith, and believe that if we are both seeking for the right answer - we will individually come to the same conclusion, or feel strongly inclined to follow the other on their chosen path. Once we both feel that God wants us to follow a certain path, there is no derailing us - people have tried. There isn't conflict within ourselves, or conflict with each other. It would be my advice to you to continue to research and to discuss and to seek for God's will with your husband until you are both of the same mind - and then follow the path that feels right for you.

Why I asked your ages: Many, many people adopt when they are in their late 30's and in their 40's. My husband and I ae 31 and 38, and we've had lots of comments about how we are so young in adoption that it is in our favor, and an appeal to birthmoms.

I hope you are blesssed on your journey to the answer that bring your heart peace. Ask lots of questions - information always helps to bring you to the right decision for you.

Andy
Mom to Aaron 14 (HG), Anna 11 (HG), Adam 8 (adopted), Andrew 8 (adopted), fostering a newborn . . .
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Postby justme » Sep 28, 2006 8:32 am

Well, Tim went to the appointment yesterday and we found out that we have two options:

1. They can do a reversal.

2. They can do an extraction and do in-vitro. They said they both cost about the same and have about an equal success rate. I told dh that if we did this option, there were some things to consider as I don't want to implact multiple eggs as have a selective reduction is not an option for me and I don't want a mutiples pregnancy (which would probably only make the hg worse). But then Jenny did her post about the genetic testing and I hadn't thought about the whole fertilizing more than one egg thing. However, dh was more keen on this option as he didn't have to go throught he surgery and then have to worry in the future about bc options.

They said that if we do either option it really should be within the first year after the vas as it has a higher success rate.

In October dh can sign up for legal aid at his work and they will help you do an adoption. But we really don't know much about this option.

Please keep praying for us.

Karen
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Postby aaronsmommy » Sep 28, 2006 9:25 am

Are you sure that it is just one more that you are longing for? If you had a reasonable pg, could you see yourself wanting more than one? What if you did get pg, but had another miscarriage? If you can see it even as a possibility, then the reversal might be a cheaper way to go.

Good luck with whatever you choose!
Aimee

Aaron 12/4/02
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Postby Ivydragon » Sep 28, 2006 1:28 pm

Aimee has a really good point - are you sure you are only talking about one conception?

Another thought to consider, is that many times with in vitro, they harvest many of your eggs, and fertilize quite a few. In order to harvest your eggs, they would need to put you on medications that would increase the number of eggs that would ripen for harvesting at one time. Multiples are so common with in vitro because they know not all of the fertilized eggs that are placed in the uterus will implant. That might mean many more placement attempts in order to conceive. If I were you, I'd want to know exactly how much each implanting procedure cost. Later on, lets say that you were successful conceiving a singleton - and decided at some point not to have more children, and you had left over fertilized eggs. You would need to decide what to do with them.

When was your husband's vas? How much time do you have to work with for making this decision?

For me, it has always helped being educated and knowledgeable about my options before deciding. Perhaps more research is in order towards adoption and towards in vitro before you can decide which of the three is best for you and your dh.

Huge hugs,

Andy
Mom to Aaron 14 (HG), Anna 11 (HG), Adam 8 (adopted), Andrew 8 (adopted), fostering a newborn . . .
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Postby justme » Sep 28, 2006 2:00 pm

Andy,

Truthfully lately I have just been feeling this incredible sadness . . . somehow this feeling that I am not going to get to have another child. But it is hard to know what are my emotions and what is from God, so I am definitely praying and trying to find out what is best for me and my family. As soon as Tim mentioned the one option, I knew there were some real concerns which we will definitely be asking real questions about. And we have to find out in this upcoming month what kind of adoption help we can receive with the legal aid plan through my husband's company. It is definitely nice when you think that you have an opportunity to give a loving home to a child who wouldn't otherwise have that chance. I like the way Bethers says that she is going to take care of God's children while He takes care of hers. But of course when we adopt them, they do in fact become "ours", and in the same token none of them are ours as they are all Gods.

Thank you for continuing to look at this thread and help me through this journey. Truthfully, I am so mad that we ever had the vas and we should have known better than to do it under such extreme circumstances.

Karen
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Postby Ivydragon » Sep 30, 2006 12:50 am

Knowing the difference between what God wants, and what we want can be difficult, especially if you're not certain what you are feeling is from you, or God. I've certainly had times where I am in much turmoil simply trying to answer that seemingly simple question.

I have found that with myself, I am more able to listen to God's will in my life when I am willing to accept whatever His will truly is - even if it's not in line with what I thought I wanted. When I can truly open up my heart and am honest with myself that I will do whatever I feel God is leading me to do, then things fall into place in my life - often times way better than I could have planned them for myself.

I really think that different people receive answers in different ways, and you just have to keep asking questions. I sincerely hope that you can come to the answer that brings your heart peace. Feel free to keep us updated on your options.

I find this hard to do consistently, but when I sit down and write out what I'm feeling, especially when it comes to future children, I suprise myself with some of what opens up, or what I'm willing to admit to myself because I'm writing it all down. Maybe journaling could help you be face to face with everything that is going on inside your heart, and your mind, and your soul. You don't even have to keep it. I tend to write things about adoption possibilities that don't pan out - but didn't write down how I felt about the one that went through, lol.

Huge hugs, Andy
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Postby justme » Oct 06, 2006 8:26 am

Tim, my dh, has said that he will get the reversal as long as I (1) get a new ob/gyn lined up before hand and (2) we get a protocol in place.

We have also decided that we are going to for sure sign up for the legal aid through his work and pursue adoption.

So now there is just a lot of waiting involved.

Karen
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Hi hon

Postby BethersinMN » Oct 07, 2006 9:01 pm

It looks like we have the same plan!

We will get each other through it! See a couple of my posts under Life.

Love, Bethers
BethersinMN- Justin 1/9/96 SEVERE HG (9 wks-36.5 wks) Ryan 4/18/09 (HG & Severe Preeclampsia and Hellp at 25 wks emerg c-sec 29 weeks) and 4 beautiful angels 05/21/04, 11/16/04, 7/28/06 & 10/6/12 forever loved with God & my parents till we are all together. We have begun another journey to bring another Baby-Love home. God please grant us faith, strength, courage, patientence and love through this each and every day.
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Postby IslandDreamer » Oct 07, 2006 10:23 pm

(((Karen)))

I just caught up with this thread. Sorry to be so slow.

A couple things come to mind: like you and Aimee and Andy mention, the risk of another loss is scary, and with each loss, our stats for another go up (sorry, that sucks to hear, I know :hugs: ). That risk had me searching for a doc to do the TL when I learned of Jack, and yes, I know it's easy for me to talk on the other side of the miracle he is, but I can say I would NEVER have dared on my own. The HG, PPD, none of it scared me more than another death.

So I do know the feeling of a miserable totally screwed up pregnancy and miscarriage as my last pregnancy. I do. And that totally sucks. And you are right, that is the ONE thing that Jack has changed about Hope's memory...her death is not the end of our family. Somehow, ending on a loss is just worse than having it in the middle. For me, anyway. (And in a couple ways, he undid my dreams of what she'd have been like, but that's another post :roll: ) BUT you won't be ending on a loss as you will be adopting, so perhaps that will soften the memory of losing Casey. Does that make sense? I have talked to a lot with non-hg bereaved mommies about this topic, and that is the one thing that is fairly consistent. Ending with a death is harder to process than not ending there, whether through birth or adoption.

And, Karen, I DON"T know what you should do. I don't. But I do want to mention these next things as you decide and consider the options. Would your child through adoption be any less yours than Riley or Casey? Not at all. So here is the question (the one where you want to smack me): Is your desire to add to your family or to beat your body, hg, ppd, the stupid docs? I understand the need to beat all of this to crap; I do. But I can also honestly say that I do not feel victorious AT ALL. I feel lucky...lucky and blessed beyond measure, and Karen, I feel like crap. Physically, I just feel like crap. That's something to consider with pg/hg/ppd. I have permanent issues, I'm certain, as I'm 10 months postpartum and my body is still doing 1 month things plus. I did have PPP and fibro after Chris and escaped permanent physical damage with Hope. But Jack's pg was NOT kind to me. It was manageable and to term and resulted in another sucky full term delivery with a live baby, thus, I label it a good delivery. But honestly, it sucked. Check the announcment board...you'll not find a birth story from me, never will...it's actually traumatic to think about...haven't even looked at the doula's notes. Jack is alive and that's all I need, though a nice birth would have be awesome. So do consider that HG does get worse in 80% of cases and each time we go through this, we're more and more likely to have permanent physical issues. Any "advanced" maternal age mommas around here who had a third pg (I'm thinking of me, Donna, and ummm...brain cramp) is experiencing troubles longterm. Guess that's another lovely HG reality....and why we have the "Long Term Issues" board.

The last thing I thought of as I read was the idea that you need to really pray and then obey. I know that you are praying a lot and listening, but be willing to hear an answer you don't like. Last week, Christopher's memory verse was Luke 28:11: ...seek the word of God and obey it. (Or something like that...he's in bed, so I can't ask and I forget :roll: ...good thing I'm not in first grade, eh? I'd fail.)

Love,
Suzanne
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