Am I the only one...?

[HelenA]

I was looking on a fluffy bunny forum the other day and I noticed a post about getting baby to sleep through the night. The baby was 4 months old and the mum was going back to work and wanted her son to sleep through without having a night feed just so that she would feel better going to work.

A woman posted a reply saying that yes you can "train" a 4 month old to sleep through, and you have to stop night feeds altogether and just let baby scream until it falls asleep, no matter how long it takes.

Am I the only one who has a problem with this??? I was under the impression that at 4 months old if they need feeding then you feed them! I read up on this and found most experts agree that under 6 months you should not take away night feeds as the baby obviously needs them. And even then if they get distressed you should feed, as all babies are different. Maybe it's just because I wasn't fortunate enough to have the "perfect" pregnancy, and maybe I am too soft on my daughter, but I can not imagine leaving my little girl to scream her head off for hours until she falls asleep due to exhaustion. I would much rather give her a feed and then go back to sleep, than have to hear her scream the house down.

I have also heard that taking night feeds away from a baby before they are ready can lead to weight loss in the baby, surely no mother would risk their childs health for the sake of a peaceful night for her? I am fairly fortunate as my DD sleeps for roughly 6 hours a night, but if she does wake for a feed then I give her one. I know my baby is only just over 3 weeks, but I can't imagine changing my view on this in 3 months time.

Someone tell me that I am not alone here?

[3kids]

This is something that is going to be very new to me. As Jack has been tube fed since day one, the feeding thing has been very different for me so I think it is going to take a big adjustment when Katie gets here.

Jack is tube fed on a 4-5 hourly schedule (used to be 2-3 when he was little) and we did overnight feeds when he was younger, but they probably stopped when he was around 5 months or so, I can't remember exactly (he gets 4 feeds during the day now). The difference is though, he never woke up or experienced hunger due to how it tube feeding orked.

So that's 2 counts actually. Feeding and having a crying, waking baby (he also slept *all* the way through since coming home, I think as he was so used to the "chaos" of being in special care for so long with the lights, monitors, alarms etc he got used to sleeping through anything!).

It will be a culture shock for me being woken up and having to do feeds (tube feeds although very frustrating today as I want Jack to eat/drink by himself, were very "convenient" back then in that I could do them when he was still sleeping so he was never disturbed, so sitting with a syringe is different to actually feeding and comforting and getting a baby back to sleep).

Anyway, in my rambling way, I'm saying that although I don't have any experience to the contrary, I think for me 4 months would probably feel a bit too soon for cry it out. I'd be more inclined, if I felt I had to resort to that, that 6 months would be a more suitable age. I mean 4 months - only 16 weeks old, it's still so young. I think if a baby *by themselves* sleeps through and is progressing ok then in that case it is fine to leave them be, I don't think I would wake them up to feed, but more do it on their schedule, but I don't think I could force them at that age to give it up. Having said that though, I've also never dealt with a screaming, crying baby (Jack has also never really cried - I have been so lucky, lol!), so I don't know what I'd do. I don't think I could do it though.

I think about all these types of things a lot on how different things are going to be this time. I'm going to be a second first time mother . I have *no* clue how to deal with "normal" things

[dwtegli]

WTF???

My nine month old still sometimes needs a night feed. Usually he sleeps through the night but once in a while he will wake up screaming and need a bottle. I think 4 months old is way to young especially if you need to let them scream themselves into exhaustion to accomplish it. I just couldn't do it.

[rjdecker]

I am sorry, but being a mother sometimes is inconvenient! It just isn't always going to be easy. ANd so you take the bad days with the good days. I think it would make for a more difficult night to let that little one just sit and cry! The poor little thing! I wouldn't be able to sleep. It only takes a few minutes to feed them and put them back to bed. And what about the dh in all this? Can he not help feed? With our first baby, the dh and I would take turns with him. One night, I took care of him, the next night was dh night. That helped a lot because then we both had a chance to sleep. And the baby wasn't screaming all night.

When I breastfed the girls, I would feed them, and he would change them. I know not all men are this wonderful, but they are a parent, too! And when you both work, both need to take responsibility. I think that feeding and changing aren't so bad, it is when the child is sick that really exhausts you. That is when I get frustrated, but still, leaving them to cry is cruel.

Jenny

[teddi]

4 months is much too young to deprive of feedings. There are other things you can do to encourage better sleeping, but not feeding and letting baby scream until exhuasted is just absolutely wrong and I can't imagine pediatricians liking that idea. That's horrible.

[Beth B]

I was never willing to let William cry it out at night, EVER - it's something I feel really strongly about. He woke to nurse twice most nights until he weaned at 20 months, and since then he's slept through a majority of the nights. It's not uncommon for him to wake still, though, and John or I has to go and soothe him back to sleep. I'm prepared for this again with Thomas, but I really hope he's a better sleeper - William has never seemded to need anything close to what is supposed to be "normal", and when he was younger he would usually be awake for an hour or more (sometimes a lot more...) at each feeding - he'd just be wakeful and not ready to settle back to sleep. Was all this hard on me (and John)? Yes, but I'd rather exhaust myself than make my baby cry for me. There are books out there that offer support for NOT crying it out - Dr. Sears' Nighttime Parenting and Elizabeth Pantley's The No-Cry Sleep Solution are 2 good ones. Our pediatrician and nurse midwife have never been supportive of our approach (or cosleeping, which we did for a while), but I have to do what I think is best for my baby, not what someone else says is "best".

[HelenA]

I'm so glad I'm not alone here, The whole thread made me so angry, I have been back to this site tonight (Lord only knows why I do this to myself..lol as I HATE fluffy bunnies..lol) and a few people have replied saying that it's not right. I leave DD for maybe 5 mins to see if she settles again, as she has no problem getting herself off to sleep by herself if she wakes, but if she screams I put my pinky in her basinet, and if she tries to suck my finger then I get her up for a feed. I know as they get older then the need for a night feed is reduced, but I felt 4 months was far too young. Here is the thread from that site... ( I had previously written a reply saying that you cannot train a 4 month old like a puppy)

I completely disagree with Hellon - of COURSE its possible to train your baby!! That's what learning is, responding to training! And babies are programmed to learn like crazy. Babies are sponges - they will absorb anything you teach them and its very easy to train them to sleep through the night, in less than a week. Baby needs to be sleeping in her own room, though.

Here's my method, which has been successfully used on nine babies in my husband's family (including ours). All exclusively breastfed, too.

By the time babies reach 3 months old they no longer need to feed in the night - they are waking up for a feed out of HABIT. You just need to break the habit. We did it on our DD 2 months ago when she was 3 months old and she has slept through ever since.

Night one - feed her as much as possible in the evening. Just keep feeding her all evening, tank her up with milk, as much as she will take. Put her to bed as normal (our DDs bedtime was around 10pm at that time). When she wakes up a few hours later for a feed, send your HUSBAND in to comfort her (if you go, she'll be expecting food and it will distress her more). He should pick her up, comfort her, walk around the room (dark), keep comforting her until she eventually falls back to sleep. This could take anything up to or over an hour, so be prepared. She'll scream like crazy, too. When she wakes up again, do the same thing until she falls asleep. Keep repeating, but NEVER give her any milk.

[bibliojo]

I am going to add my voice to this thread as someone who has tried this method of crying it out. First let me say, that I have friends and family who have used this method called "Babywise" (I think in the UK the same philosophy is advocated by Gina Ford?) Anyway, they made it sound so easy and they had their kids sleeping through the night in a matter of weeks from birth However, when I tried this method I had nothing but grief. Luke would scream and scream for hours. I felt like such a failure being unable to get my child to sleep through the night. I look back now and see now that he wasn't ready. I eventually gave it up and he learned to sleep through the night on his own when he was ready at 13 months, but the guilt I felt at hearing him cry all those hours, the lack of confidence I had in myself because it was supposed to be so "easy" but I couldn't seem to do it right -- all of this contributed to my PPD. I will NEVER EVER do this again. My next child will be feed on demand. I will hold him or her as often as I please and nobody will be able to tell otherwise. Hellon (and everyone else) stay clear of any parenting philosophy that says you can have your child sleeping through the night so early on. It's not beneficial to you or your child!

Joanna

[PamelaRose]

Wow! I can't imagine letting a tiny baby CIO at night without first checking on hunger! I did let my kids cry it out once they were older and going through phases where they'd wake up for reasons other than hunger or sickness, and my babies were all sleeping "through the night" by 12 weeks (even the breastfed one), but that's just the way they were made, not because I was starving them and teaching them it was useless to cry. That's sad. As a mom, you have to do what feels right for you and your baby. Some people can stand to listen to more crying than others, and some babies are better about sleeping than others. Like Joanna said, if it's making YOU feel bad, then it's not good for you or your baby!

[Trudy]

I don't believe in making a baby go hungry either. However I do believe in training them and with appropriate training they respond very well. Teaching them how to settle and sleep on their own early on makes a huge difference.

Up until Beth was about 2 2 1/2 months old she would wake in the middle of the night for a feed so I'd feed her and put her back to bed and she'd sleep till morning. Form 2 1/2 months old she would wake around 5am when Dh got up to go to work. Sometimes she'd sleep longer depending on how much noise he made (she was still in our room). At 3 1/2 months I had to put her in her own room in the cot as she was just too big for the bassinet. She slept through till 7-7:30am. I couldn't believe it. It was great. I always thought she'd sleep longer if Dh wasn't so noisey.

Anyway what I'm saying is go with what they need. They are all different and some need more feeding/night feeds than others.

[emily]

Ah, the ever popular Babywise.... Ezzo parenting. There is a whole philosophy and methodology of parenting, you can google it for more info I am sure. Borders on child abuse (in my honest opinion) but it IS very popular and disgustingly wide spread.

I, of course, fall more into the Dr. Sears, attachment parenting style (tho, I am certainly not an "attachment parent".)

[HGx3]

Like Emily, I would have to classify myself as more of An AP mom, as I tried the CIO method with ds1, and it was very stressful for him, and heartbreaking for me. There were times when the crying would continue for 2 hours. I always went in and reassured him, but I felt that it was just not the method for us. My children have since each co-slept with us until around 15 or 18 months. At this age, they are more ready to sleep without needing to nurse for hunger.

I personally feel that a 4 month old baby is way too young to be CIO. Yep, they can be trained to self soothe when there arent any other alternatives, but how sad that is, when all that tiny baby wants and needs is to be snuggled a bit

There are times when I have to put Josh down so that I can get things done, and yes, he cries, but I am not depriving him of love, touch, interaction, or food when I do this to him at 12 months old. He is learning to be independent of me while still having me in his sight for reassurance.

[rjdecker]

I agree with Pamela that each baby is different. My first was sleeping a good number of hours by the time he was two months, but that was his doing! He was just a natural sleeper. Then #2 came along and she never slept the whole night through until she was 3 years old. My third was a pretty good sleeper, too, and even took two naps during the day! It was nice. My fourth sleeps all night and two hours during the day. My three year old still needs a nap during the day because she has so much energy, but can't seem to be able to make it to the evening without making us all misrable! So, each child is different. And you know what? We have survived as parents. Yes, we have had stressful nights, but really, in all, things have worked out pretty well. I do get angry when a parent puts their comfort before a child who is way to young to be "trained". A four month old is still very young and needs the love and comfort, and giving them something to eat at night is not going to spoil them!

Hellon, you really struck an emotional nerve here. I need to stop before I get really angry at what these people have said!

Jenny

[HelenA]

Jenny, This struck a nerve with me too, although this is my first so I have nothing to compare to, I cannot imagine that I would even contemplate just leaving my baby to scream, no matter how old they are. If they scream there is a reason, and obviously as they get older then the likelyhood of it being food is reduced, but 4 months old? I just can't see it benefitting the child or the parents! I have edited my posts a LOT as if I put what I really felt when I read that post I probably would have got banned!!

[caty]

When my dd was about 5 months old we realized that she wasn't really hungry in the middle of the night so we'd give her water instead. She didn't really care for that and settled for her pacifier instead. BUT WE ALWAYS GOT UP AND CHECKED ON HER!!!! When she was 6 months old, we let her cry it out a VERY LITTLE...but I wouldn't let her cry for more than a few minutes without going in and checking on her and letting her know we were there. And I always made sure she was clean and dry and had a full tummy. And really we only let her cry when we put her to bed the first time of the night... we eventually used music to help her sleep through the night. (Put her lullabye CD on repeat all night so she'd hear it when she woke up) I think 4 month olds are still at that point where they need to know that you'll be there if you need them, that you're still developing trust and whatnot. Just my opinion though! Emily started sleeping through the night at 6 months, and now come to think of it, we were also feeding her baby cereal before bed at that point, so her tummy was fuller. I think hgers also have a "soft" point of view on this (if you want to put it that way) because we've been so hungry & nauseus for so long we can't imagine our babies having to feel that way!! LOL
BTW...anyone think that if their 4 month old actually slept all night you wouldn't wake up scared and run in and check on them?! LOL...I remember doing that for WEEKS when Emily started sleeping through the night!

[rjdecker]

I told dh about this thread. He had just been reading an article in one of my pg magazines that I really don't care for, but it was on SIDS. In the article it stated that if the baby is not held on a regular basis, or what not, that they are at higher risk for SIDS. I think that speaks for itself. I don't know what research has been done on this, but would anyone want to put their baby at higher risk for SIDS?

Jenny

[helen-l-a]

Hello,

Just thought I would add my opinion... I backed up Helen on this Fluffy Forum topic and I thought it was shameful and said as much to these "silly, stupid" women. It is not on and the snotty replies that Helen had was just unbelieveable. I have mentioned to Helen that perhaps she should post the site and the forum so that everyone can put their views from here on there too. I was fuming at the total ineptitude of these people and how they had such little understanding of their little babies needs. If only we all had the perfect babies that did not inconvenience us... but then I enjoyed my moments with my babies when I breastfed them in the middle of the night... it was our time and very special.
I just think some women want their babies but not the hard, sometimes very tiring work that goes with them.

Anyway that is my view and I am not going to budge on it so there!