Christianity and terminations

[UKmommy]

Hi, I was raised a christian, my father is a baptist preacher in a small town in the bible belt of america. I was 20 years old, dating a crack addict(who i didnt know was on crack as I have never done a drug in my life) and i got pregnant. I got hg SEVERLY and had no idea what it was. All i could do was lie in bed while my 2 year old ran around me. I had noone. The dad of my baby(the crack addict) left me so I moved in with my dad in a 2 bedroom apartment that my younger sister and brother lived in as well. I was still so sick. My grandmother paid for my termination. I could not go on anymore and had to do it, even though i didnt want to. Felt 100% better after it. My dad has never forgiven me and it makes me mad. If he wanted me to have this baby SOOOOOOO bad, he would of taken care of me and my younger son, but he didn't. I had to do what I had to do to survive. It does not bother me now, because I know I was dying and it is all I could do. I do think about Angel-Leanne(her name, I just know it was a her for some reason), but I know it was for the best. I wish my dad could forgive me. And he told everyone in my family as well! I hate hg.

[HGx3]

Okay, I do not typically get too deep into religous discussions or offer much religous advice more than a prayer, but since you are asking, I'll bite.

You said that you were raised a Christian. Are you still a Christian?

Either way, here is my take.

What is done is done, and you cannot change it. You have to find a way to cope so that you can move forward in your life. As Christians we know that our Lord is forgiving. I do not know if you are having feelings of guilt and sorrow in terms of Christianity, but if you are, if you ask Him for forgiveness, you are in fact forgiven. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. We are also taught as Christians, that we have to walk in forgiveness toward others. Though this is not always the easiest thing to do, it is a fundamental principal of Christianity.

With that being said, if your Dad was/is a preacher, he knows this already.
I am sorry that you feel that he has not forgiven you, and I know that must hurt you deeply, but honestly, it is his problem if he cannot forgive. All you can do is walk in forgiveness toward him and hope and pray that one day he will apply the very principals that he stands to represent in his own life.

From reading your other posts, I am assuming that you have had 3 pregnancies, with 2 being hg pgs, is that correct?

Just know that you are not alone in any aspect of your hg experience.

HTH.

[IslandDreamer]

I’m sorry I’ve been so slow to respond to your post. I know I Pmed you that I’d be back online Friday, but I fell ill and haven’t been able to do much of anything all weekend.

I’m so sorry you lost your baby to HG. We all understand how this illness works and how it leads to such devastating conclusions. Many of us have thought about terminating, prayed to miscarry, and many have done as you did out of the desperation of such debilitating illness. I think it’s especially difficult to have an HG pg with a living child in the home. My first HG pg was with Christopher, and I just bedded down and waited. When I developed HG again last year with Hope (unresponsive, severe HG), my biggest concern was for how this illness would impact Chris. How could I get through this and take care of him? I completely empathize with what brought you to that decision.

And I hear so much hurt and resentment toward your father for not helping when you were so desperately in need. (I relate to that too as family is not very helpful for me either.) I would carry a great deal of bitterness if I had been left on my own with HG and a toddler only to be judged for trying to save my own life.

Most people don’t comprehend the primitive survival battle HG becomes. The simple and basic need to consume fluids and nutrition becomes impossible, and it becomes impossible because of our own child. There is no more painful choice in my opinion. Who gets to live? I truly felt I was in battle for my life while I was pregnant with Hope.

I am also sorry your Dad is carrying anger about what happened. That’s salt in the wound for sure. I would be hurt and bitter in your situation, just as you are. I would encourage both of you to read a book by Jack Hayford called _I’ll Hold You In Heaven_. In the book, Hayford addresses all forms of child loss: miscarriage, stillbirth, neonatal death, and abortion. But I find the most words, and the most insightful words, to be on abortion. He speaks of the nature of forgiveness, the grace of Christ, and answers moms’ questions about where our babies are? Do they know we love them? Are they angry with us? (This last one was HUGE for me because for her short life, all I did was hate Hope for making me sick and it still breaks my heart that her entire life on earth was like that. By the way, the answer to the question is “No, our babies do NOT hate us and are not angry.â€ÂÂ

[di]

Your dad needs a trip to HG Island.

i can't even begin to say how mad that post made me. I can't really offer too much in the way of knowing what it's like as I have never gone thru it, however my husband and I (both practicing christians) have decided that if i get pregnant again, unless there is much more agressive treatment avaliable for HG, that we will abort . We know that it's a huge decision to have to make, and never an easy one. Our church does not have an official policy on contraception or abortion: it is up to the individual. I believe you when you say you had to do it for your own survival, and the thing with HG is that it is not a choice between your life or your baby's. Either your baby is aborted or you both die. Only "mum" can live. That was really hard for me to deal with when i was in the thick of HG, and only someone who has been there can understand. Most parents would give up their own life for their child, but with HG its not even an option. I very nearly didn't have the choice of keeping my baby.

I hope you are able to find some peace with this huge issue, and maybe your father will come around eventually

All the best of luck.

Di

[Ivydragon]

I am sorry to hear of your loss. We are Christian, and we sought our own church's recommendations when we contemplated my husband's vasectomy. Contraception in our faith is largely left up to each couple and their own decisions through prayer, but sterilization is a more serious matter. Abortion and sterilization are recommended to be reserved for situations in which the health of the mother is in jeoprody. HG put your life in jeoprody. It isn't for man to judge - it is for God to judge the truths of your heart, and your state of mind, and your choice, and no one on this earth can pretend or presume to know God's judgement. You certainly won't be judged by us here. Our church leader whom we consulted actually saw me with HG, and asked me if we'd ever been near anyone near death, besides myself, of course, referring to the HG. Clearly our interest as a couple to be infertile was not going to be questioned, and they recommended we pray about it and choose for ourselves, but that the Church's policy would support our choice in this instance. I'll never forget that he considered me close to death. Your father being a minister makes things easier and harder - he knows life is precious, and he knows all about forgiveness - maybe it'd be easier to forgive him for his feelings were he not a man who wore his religion as his vocation. Being a Church leader does not make one perfect. I am sorry that it hurts so much. I don't know how you feel about your own choice. It isn't a choice anyone should have to make, but sometimes we don't all face situations where there is an easy answer. Perhaps you could ask him if he intends on this ruining your relationship. I don't always like my family's choices - I have 4 sisters, and we don't always get along 100%, but there is a link of love in which we won't allow an arguement to ruin the sisterhood that we share. I know you're hurt, but sometimes reaching out can help. Maybe he still won't forgive you, but you won't know unless you try.

Huge hugs, Andy

[Ivydragon]

Di - I am so sorry to hear that you and your husband have already decided to abort any future pregnancy if there aren't great medical advances. Sometimes treatments are available that weren't tried, weren't known of, yet available. Proactive treatment makes a huge difference, and sometimes a different Dr. makes an even larger difference. Feel free to tell me all about your pregnancy, and see what possibilities you would have for treatment in another, I do have 4 years' experience helping HGers learn about better treatment options and finding better Drs., and I do know other HGers in Australia -- you can email me, or pm me privately, or find me in the 1st trimester board. If after comparing your pregnancy with others you discover that you indeed had the best treatments and still suffered past where you feel comfortable ever venturing again, that's ok, too. Knowing when enough HG and suffering is enough requires wisdom and courage. I've faced that decision. Sterilization in my husband was our answer, others prefer tubal ligations. Some women decide on reliable birth control options that give them 5 years to hang on to the choice to decide - IUD's.

What I do know is the fantastic relief and opportunity to be intimate with my husband without the fear of a pregnancy. In our world of HG, it is a fear sometimes far greater than a blessing until the baby is born, and many times no longer worth the risk of losing mum of children already born. What I also know is that not one woman I've seen who has aborted has been free from pain concerning her decision. Was it the best choice, are they glad to feel healthy again? Maybe the right choice, yes, healthy again feels so good, but there comes a price - a toll that I would never want to see a woman bear who could prevent such a tragic choice with such great options available. It is a personal choice, but you posted a sad face after writing that decision, and I'd hate to see you endure the hardships of that choice. I know women who terminated several times, I have heard their sorrow, and their great joy in motherhood later on, and their devout decisions to never terminate again. Don't ever allow the chance that you would conceive again, knowing what you would decide, knowing what you would suffer. My heart just cries when I know of another HG termination - because with enough support, and education, and good Drs., and medications, it doesn't have to happen. It is why I am on the computer every week when I will never conceive again - to help women survive this easier, so abortion is not an option. It is why I've been doing this for four years, why I administrate the forums, and moderate in the 1st trimester forum as my focus. I know the loss of miscarriage, something I'll never forget, and never get over. I can't imagine knowing I would decide to suffer that sort of pain in my heart and not do everything in my power to make sure I didn't have to.

Andrea

[HGx3]

ITA with everything Andy said.

Really Di, if you know that you would abort upon conception, I BEG you to please take precautions now,so that you do not become pregnant again and have to face such a horror. If you think having hg took its' toll on you mentally, try asking someone here about the pain of a loss due to miscarriage or termination. None of these women wanted to face such circumstances, and will always carry the sadness of the loss of the baby they will never hold here on earth. I am sure that if they could change thier circumstances, or could have possibly prevented thier loss, they would. I think to simply outright say you would abort should you become pregnant, trivializes the very difficult decision others have had to make.

[shearn01]

I am totally with what Lisa said. It makes me tearful and pained that there are sooo many people who sooo badly want their children and then they are whisked away to heaven sometimes without any answers. I experience this grief at work at least 1 or 2 times a month with parents who either have stillborns/mc/terminations for medical reasons. I have had many parents cling to hope that things would turn for the better only to have them turn for the worst. Think strongly about these people who so badly wanted their children. Think about contraception.

[nomore]

Di,

I really feel the need to echo the pleas of the prevoius posters regaurding your thoughts of termiantion in future pregnancies. I TRULY understand your desire to not want to udergo HG again. Please take an active role in making sure you prevent this from happening, if you are sure of your feelings.

I can speak as a person who DID terminate a very much wanted and very loved child due to HG. The pain and grief is FAR greater than the months that you endure HG. It leaves a hole in your heart.... in your family.... that is beyod painful at times. Please trust me that you do NOT ever want to be in a spot where you have had to make the choice to termiante your own child's life. So, with this being said, please make sure you are never forced to be in this spot.

And to Gero.... Im so sorry for the pain you are going through still. I know for several months after we terminated I was very angry at how God could ever allow us to feel such pain and grief.... I struggled with many issues relating to how I could even believe in such a God. I was beyond angry.

While I dont have the right answers, my faith has once again returned. I again had to remember that just as God will forgive us, we needed to forgive him. I am hoping you and your father will be able to one day move past this. Sending you some love and hugs....

Robin

[Ivydragon]

Just a reminder to everyone to be careful how you interrpret posts - Di hasn't said she isn't considering any contraception. We've all heard of stories where birth control fails, or vasectomies reconnect, and their decision may well be only if the what if happens after they have done everything in their power to prevent a pregnancy to reoccur. Perhaps no one intended to presume that no birth control was being used, either. I'm concerned that this discussion could erupt from misinterrpretation to one side of thinking or the other, when the middle ground is probably what was intended.

Di, I didn't expect so many strong posts after mine, and I hope you don't feel ganged up upon. I hope you see that everyone is urging you from their own perspectives and from the reality of heartbreak that is hard to live with, and know that we always respect the right of personal choice. Sometimes great lessons can be learned from others who have walked a path we are considering, out of choice, or need, or desperation. I hope you hear our heartache, and the desperation we feel to prevent the same aches in you. We aren't trying to judge, just inform. I hope it hasn't come across too strong, and if it has, I am sorry, and hope you forgive.

Sometimes we have women who only post a few times and then leave, or get easily offended and then leave, sometimes with misinformation or wrong impressions of the ease of HG, or the hope they won't get sick again, or being ignorant to the pain of such a loss when they find themselves sicker than they expected. We have to try to educate at every angle to make sure that women are as well informed as possible. There are over 1,000 members on our memberlist, and I just can't know everyone's story and background and medication lists. I have to err on the side of informing more than is neccessary, because there are still women who have never heard of basic, common, available treatments, and often I'll be alerted to a concerning situation or comment, and I have to respond because I care so much for each of you. I hope you understand.

Hugs, Andy

[IslandDreamer]

[quote]I hope you hear our heartache, and the desperation we feel to prevent the same aches in you. We aren't trying to judge, just inform. I hope it hasn't come across too strong, and if it has, I am sorry, and hope you forgive.[/quote]

Di, hi.

I was just coming in to state (and now only need echo) what Andy said. Please accept these posts where they come from...from other women who understand and just don't want to see you suffer.

Suzanne

[UKmommy]

Hi everyone, thanks so much for helping me feel much better. Yes, I am a praticing Christian, and I think that is how I don't beat myself up everyday about this, I know I am forgiven by God, and that is all that matters. My father and I still speak and are close, but he has never forgiven me for this, and I never talk about it. I just know that I will not go through that again and don't wish it upon anyone ever. I cried so hard as I read these posts and realised that I have never dealt with my grief concerning these issues, I just put them on the back burner in the *mistakes I have made* section(millions of those there! lol). I am happy now in my life, and know that I don't have to do this again. Thanks everyone for your replies, it is so nice to know that I am not judged.

God Bless.

Joyxxx

[HGx3]

I too want to say that I only have your best interests at heart and want you to know that I hope you did not take offense to anything said. I just know what you went through recently and do not want you to suffer any additional pain from hg.

[di]

Ok, 1st off, no offence taken!

Thanks for all your thoughts on the matter. I truly didn't mean to monopolise this thread either, (SORRY!! GerogiagalinUK).

Just for the record, I am using an IUD (www.mirena.com for more info) which is meant to prevent pg for up to 5 years, so i have not done anything permanent. I wanted to have a TL, but at only 21 (at the time) it was pretty much out of the question. we have opted for long term contraception, that is easier than the pill, coz i get sick on the pill! And an added bonus is that i don't have to remember to take it every day either

I absolutely loved my ob/gyn, he was a great help to me during my pg, the only one I know of in the area who would prescribe enough Zofran for me!

I am disappointed, however, that there seems to be no option like i have read about on this site, for an IV administered at home, because if that became avalible to me, i would possibly consider pg again. ATM it's a no-go zone. IMHO there is SFA in the way of general Dr education about HG , and i even had a dr at the hospital send a social worker in to talk to me, and suggesting that it was all in my mind. Oh how the medical pofession crackers us!

Anyhow, i have taken on board what you all have said, and am taking precautionary measures to prevent pg, of course we really don't want to ever have to really make the choice on termination, as we were asked about it with our beautiful Jazmin, and it was the hardest choice I have ever had to make. I was not in a clear frame of mind at the time...but of course I don't regret having her!!!! - However, I am 100% sure I would have had major regrets if we had aborted, as was discussed with us.

So...I apologise once again for stealing the limelight on this thread!!!

xoxoxoxox

[nomore]

Di,

I just wanted to also add, as Lisa said, my prevoius post was only out of concern not wanting to see you suffer more.

Im so glad you were not offended... and if you were, I am so sorry for that.

I wish I knew more about the healthcare system in Austarilia for you. There are some gals here that might have more input on that... ways of getting the best care.

Your little girl is SO beautiful Enjoy her greatly

Robin

[Alison]

UKmommy,

I am so sorry to hear about your situation. I know how hard that is. I have had 3 HG pg's with 2 m/c and 1 termination. I also am a Christian so I can relate to the inner struggle of making that devistating decision.

It got so bad at times that people I knew for many years would say things like, it should have been me that died and not the baby and the how do I know that God did not want me to die. People can be cruel.

Just remember, people only hold on to grudges toward others because they can't get past some of their own mistakes. Your dad is hurting too and he just doesn't know how to handle/deal with that pain so it turns into anger and you are the easiest target. It would be too painful for him to face himself.

It is not going to be easy, there will be really hard times where you will just break down. But that is ok, it is healthy. Getting it out is healthy, holding it in is not.

Just keep praying for your dad and remember that the prayer of a righteous man (or woman in this case) availeth much. In your kindness toward him you will show the love of God which will convict him in time.

You should check out Kathy Tricoli's (sp?) song about abortion. She had a few I think and wrote a comforting song about it. I will keep you in my prayers and I hope this has helped.

Everything does happen for a reason though we may not know what that is. We should use it, when you are strong enough, to be there for others who are going through what you have been through. Your strength and path could be the light for someone else that gives them what they need so that they don't have to go through we we have.

Ok, I hope to hear how things are going with you.

Sincerely,
Alison

[PamelaRose]

Di - You mentioned home IV. I have an HG volunteer in Australia (Victoria) who had home health care and IV treatment. She's the first I've run across in Australia, but where there's one, there's hope for more. If you're interested in getting in touch with her for details, let me know.